Trolls

We've had a recent spat of trolling, or accusations of trolling, anyway.

My concern has more to do with the accusations. We all know there are trolls who roam in the internet, and ASAWA is a good target for them, since discussions about relationships are excellent places to cause anger and discontent.

However, if members continue to point fingers at new members, accusing them of being trolls, it's likely that a lot of non-trolls are going to get driven from the forum. At times, this reminds me of the Salem witch-hunts. Innocents are bound to get hurt if we knee-jerk every time a post seems controversial, spectacular, or dubious.

Give everyone - in particular, new members - the benefit of the doubt, until such time as there is no doubt that his or her posts are false and intended to cause arguments within the forum. If you think someone's a troll, but don't have anything to base it on other than your gut feeling, then don't reply to his or her post. If you have a solid case that the person is a troll, PM me or the moderators so we can take a look. But don't just start making posts pointing fingers screaming "Troll!" You could be wrong. Surely you've been wrong before, and in this case you could be discouraging other members from helping someone who actually needs help, who is not a troll.

I think, too, that some members are so afraid of being scammed or embarrassed by trolls or liars that they go on the offense immediately, at the first sign of any discrepancy in the poster's narrative. Posters will make mistakes. That does not mean they are lying. In particular, when someone makes a three or four paragraph post, typing away from memory, not taking the time to write up a chronological chart beforehand, they are almost bound to make mistakes.

Also, no one whose opinion you should care about will think less of you for offering good advice to a person who ends up being proved a troll. No decent person is going to laugh at you for offering help to a deceiver. They will despise or pity the person who deceived you, but a person of good character won't think less of you for making an honest effort at assisting someone who claimed to need your assistance. Will the troll think less of you? Who cares what the troll thinks?

On the other hand, calling someone a troll who you do not KNOW is a troll is preventing others from helping someone who might really need help. That is far worse than being suckered by a troll. If you try to help a troll, the worst that has happened is that you've made an honest attempt at helping someone who did not need it. You might feel a little resentment, maybe embarrassment, but no harm has been done you, and no one will think less of you for what you did (they will probably think more highly of you for at least having made the attempt).

But if you refuse to help a poster, call them a troll, scare others from posting replies, and that person is not a troll, you've done real harm. You've prevented someone who needs help from getting it, at least here. You may have even made a bad situation worse. You could have seriously impacted a person's life, in a negative way, when all they wanted was some guidance.

I personally treat every poster as a real person with a real problem, until there's overwhelming evidence to the contrary. If I get tricked, fine. I don't feel any worse for having made the effort. I would rather take the chance of some minor, fleeting embarrassment at being tricked than to gamble at turning away someone who needs help.

Finally, you have to understand that the very thing trolls want is to cause chaos within a forum. If they have made it so that people cannot post their problems without fear of being accused as liars, of being maligned simply because their posts seemed unusual or somehow erroneous, then the trolls have already won. Paranoia will rule, people will be afraid to post, or reply to posts. Trolls don't care if they are called out. If they can make it so that one honest person is wrongly accused of being a troll, it's a net win for their side. If they can make you are so paranoid that you're afraid to post replies, they win. If they make it so that you're afraid to post, for fear of being called a troll, they win.

Don't play their game.

Deleted...

I edited your post to remove the name of the person you're accusing of being a troll (which shouldn't be much of surpise since it followed my post asking members not to point fingers at people they think are trolls).

To your point, though: I'm discussing only trolls. People who enter forums making provocative posts and attempting to incite a general unrest among members.

You're talking about members who have had collisions or angry exchanges with others, or who seem adversarial. That's a different situation, and has to be handled in a different way, normally thru some kind of mediation. In that case, I deleted the other account and talked to everyone involved (there were only about 3 people, I think) and tried to find some kind of peace. To my knowledge, since that time, there's been no problem posts from the person you mentioned, and no attempt to cause anyone any grief. That member has made over a hundred posts, and all the ones I've scanned since the "incident" are just regular posts, with no controversy associated with them. Lately, most of the posts have been about cooking, in fact, which isn't exactly a favorite haunt of people looking to cause trouble.

Hi Bob! Thank you for posting this announcement about trolls. My fiance' and I are new members here. I learned about this website when i attended the CFO seminar. I decided to check it out because the girls there told me i could learn many useful information from the site. My boyfriend posted a reply which angered the others and it was just an honest opinion on his part. It then lead to many arguments. With that, we were accused of being trolls and even called us names. So we decided to stop sending any replies and just be contended with reading.
Sadly, these people who did this to us are the same people who caused some threads to be locked by the moderators.

Bob, although I (like anyone would) don't always agree with everything you do or say, I must admit that your ability to always keep it cool is a real mark of character.

I see this as a territorial marking of the tree, shall we say.. People (and we probably all can think of one) like to think of themself as the big fish in the pond.

I like most everyone here, there is one (I haven't seen here in a while) that I know is a phony SOB -- And I know from personal experience, but I know the rules, and I just don't go there. Someone asks me? Well, that's private, but regardless, we are NEVER going to like everyone, or be all things to all people. THat's just the way it is.

I see some people here who get all emotional over trivial things, too. I really just have a giggle, because I remember when I was a young buck who worried about every little thing too. Now I just do the best I can, and as far as the things beyond my control? Screw those things. No point in having an aneurysm over some trifling internet thing.

That being said...

Trolls are often times simply newbies that don't know the rules, and have little say. I see newbies all the time that are called trolls (not only here). This is not to say that trolls do not linger here and elsewhere, but I think just calling someone who may not be as educated in the ettiquete of our realm a troll shows a lack of say from the person accusing..

Trolls all expose themself eventually, but when you engage them, you are really playing into their game.. After all, a real troll is just an attention whore -- Think about it.

Regards,

Me

Bob, I think your points are very well taken. It is far to easy to accuse someone of being a troll and flaming him/her for it, when that person might not be a troll. Especially on this Forum, where some of the participants are not as fluent in English as others might be. Although English is a second language in the PI, it is a SECOND language. Most of us are familiar with quaint expressions and constructions!!

Moreover, the Filipino sensitivities are something many of us have had to adjust to. You can bring on tampo just from the tone of your voice or a facial expression. Talk about thin skins!! So the tone of some of the posts accusing others of being trolls is very likely to chill the free expression by some of the Filipinas on this Forum.

All a troll can do is waste some of my internet time, reading the threads and maybe responding. But if I get taken in, well, I won't even have any embarassment. I consciously have decided that I would rather be taken in than to go through life assuming that the other person has evil intent. Better to be conned occassionally than to be a cynical skeptical curmudgeon. (Damn, I wish I had spell check!!) It makes my life better!

this is very reasonable. thank you Bob.

Originally Posted by bobukhan

We've had a recent spat of trolling, or accusations of trolling, anyway.

My concern has more to do with the accusations. We all know there are trolls who roam in the internet, and ASAWA is a good target for them, since discussions about relationships are excellent places to cause anger and discontent.

However, if members continue to point fingers at new members, accusing them of being trolls, it's likely that a lot of non-trolls are going to get driven from the forum. At times, this reminds me of the Salem witch-hunts. Innocents are bound to get hurt if we knee-jerk every time a post seems controversial, spectacular, or dubious.

Give everyone - in particular, new members - the benefit of the doubt, until such time as there is no doubt that his or her posts are false and intended to cause arguments within the forum. If you think someone's a troll, but don't have anything to base it on other than your gut feeling, then don't reply to his or her post. If you have a solid case that the person is a troll, PM me or the moderators so we can take a look. But don't just start making posts pointing fingers screaming "Troll!" You could be wrong. Surely you've been wrong before, and in this case you could be discouraging other members from helping someone who actually needs help, who is not a troll.

I think, too, that some members are so afraid of being scammed or embarrassed by trolls or liars that they go on the offense immediately, at the first sign of any discrepancy in the poster's narrative. Posters will make mistakes. That does not mean they are lying. In particular, when someone makes a three or four paragraph post, typing away from memory, not taking the time to write up a chronological chart beforehand, they are almost bound to make mistakes.

Also, no one whose opinion you should care about will think less of you for offering good advice to a person who ends up being proved a troll. No decent person is going to laugh at you for offering help to a deceiver. They will despise or pity the person who deceived you, but a person of good character won't think less of you for making an honest effort at assisting someone who claimed to need your assistance. Will the troll think less of you? Who cares what the troll thinks?

On the other hand, calling someone a troll who you do not KNOW is a troll is preventing others from helping someone who might really need help. That is far worse than being suckered by a troll. If you try to help a troll, the worst that has happened is that you've made an honest attempt at helping someone who did not need it. You might feel a little resentment, maybe embarrassment, but no harm has been done you, and no one will think less of you for what you did (they will probably think more highly of you for at least having made the attempt).

But if you refuse to help a poster, call them a troll, scare others from posting replies, and that person is not a troll, you've done real harm. You've prevented someone who needs help from getting it, at least here. You may have even made a bad situation worse. You could have seriously impacted a person's life, in a negative way, when all they wanted was some guidance.

I personally treat every poster as a real person with a real problem, until there's overwhelming evidence to the contrary. If I get tricked, fine. I don't feel any worse for having made the effort. I would rather take the chance of some minor, fleeting embarrassment at being tricked than to gamble at turning away someone who needs help.

Finally, you have to understand that the very thing trolls want is to cause chaos within a forum. If they have made it so that people cannot post their problems without fear of being accused as liars, of being maligned simply because their posts seemed unusual or somehow erroneous, then the trolls have already won. Paranoia will rule, people will be afraid to post, or reply to posts. Trolls don't care if they are called out. If they can make it so that one honest person is wrongly accused of being a troll, it's a net win for their side. If they can make you are so paranoid that you're afraid to post replies, they win. If they make it so that you're afraid to post, for fear of being called a troll, they win.

Don't play their game.

I got all the trolls on ignore ... You can leave home without the right to ignore. There's actually a forum filled with trolls. They formed that forum to secretly attack the members at Asawa. There's another forum something to do with "world" and "filipina"where a known trolls is the main moderator there.

Sounds like the pot calling the kettle so-called black.

Now Danny can be like Darrell and have everybody on IGNORE.

Ya-Hoo!

Originally Posted by danyelhabin77

I got all the trolls on ignore ... You can leave home without the right to ignore. There's actually a forum filled with trolls. They formed that forum to secretly attack the members at Asawa. There's another forum something to do with "world" and "filipina"where a known trolls is the main moderator there.

A troll calling everyone else a troll. Now this is starting to get confusing!